Koirakuiskaaja Cesar Millan pois TV:stä
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Factsplease |
#637 There is a matter.30.04.2012 18:16There is quite a The point is not really wether Victoria Stilwell or Zak George are better or more skilled than Cesar Millan, or the other way around. What we should consider is which methods are the most effective, quick and safe for us: the average dog owner who wants an happy and trustful companion. Cesar is clearly very skilled with dogs, mostly because he is calm and balanced. But what you should think about is not how good HE is, but whether his techniques are good for you or not. The problem with Cesar’s techniques is that they are old, and their are not based on facts, only his own personal opinions. He is know for trying to explain most of dog interactions with his dominance based theory. Since dogs descends from wolfs, and since wolfs have a strong hierarchical pack structure and they will strive to get a higher rank in the pack, you need to become your dog pack leader by walking in front on him, passing first through doors, "claiming" your dominance over toys and foods. If you believe that dogs have clear hierarchies and that never letting your dog walk in front of you, or passing always first through the door, will make your dog respect you, that’s ok, you can believe it. Some people believe in ufo as well. What you can’t say is that it is based upon facts, or that it is logical. Every researcher that had been observing wolfs in the wild agree that the dominance-theory is very very simplicistic and not accurate: wolfs actually live in families, formed by the breeding pair and their cubs, so the "alpha" pair is actually nothing more than the parents. Once the little wolfs grow up, they don’t fight for a higher rank or to achieve the alpha status, they leave the pack and look for a mate to start their own family. On of the most important people who popularized the term "alpha wolf" is David Mech: he is an internationally recognized wolf expert, his book sold hundreds of thousands of copies and they are the very source where most people get their information about wolf behavior. So, this proves the alpha theory, doesn’t? As a matter of fact it doesn’t. Mech admit that in his book published in the seventies he labelled the top wolf as the alpha, because AT THAT TIME it was all that science new. In these days he said that "in the 35 year from then we’ve learned a lot of things, and one of them is that the term alpha is very incorrect when applied to most wolf packs." That said, it doesn’t actually matter how wolf think and behave. Dogs are dogs, they evolved in many ways from wolfs, so thinking that we should base our dog training upon how wolf (supposedly) behave, is as logical as to base our diet on bananas, since, because we evolved from apes, their natural diet is the best for us too. There is plenty of evidence that dogs have actually a very different behavior and social interactions from wolfs. Dogs evolved specifically to understand us and to communicate with us in many meaningful ways. So, you don’t really need any of this alpha theory at all. It just does’t matter. You don’t do, of course, any harm if you teach your dog to never walk in front of you, if you call yourself "pack leader" and so on. If you like it, you can do it, if it raise your self-confidence do it, but it is something you are doing for yourself, not your dog. Your dog is not going to understand anything of this. Maybe he will behave as you want, or maybe he will not. In either case this will depend upon you passing first through the doors. When the alpha theory does matter is when people think that they NEED to be a strong leader, and when they misunderstand this and use this as a justification for aversive techniques, or for using strength, anger, and so on. Again, I don‘t say that Cesar isn’t good with dogs, he clearly is. The problem is that you should NEVER do what he does in his tv-series. There are two main reasons for that: 1) his techniques are not safe, and that’s the reason why his series states "never try these techniques without consulting a professional". There is a very high probably of being bitten, or anyway having the dog behave aggressively to you or others. Despite having worked with dogs for many years and being very skilled, Cesar gets often bitten by dogs on his show. He knows what he does, so if that’s fine for HIM, ok. But you probably don’t have years of experience in dog rehabilitation, and probably you are not skilled enough to keep your dog in control if he tries to hurt you, or, even worse, if he tries to hurt your kids or other people around. So, whatever you think about Cesar and his theories, respect him. DO NOT try his techniques, since he is asking you to do not. Some veterinaries claim that dog bites accidents increased consistently because of people trying to emulate Cesar. That’s not Cesar’s fault and it does not means that he can’t handle dog, but it DOES mean that if he asks you to not do what he does, there’s a very good reason for it. So listen him. 2) If his techniques and theories works for him, it does not mean they will work for you. It is very naive and irrational to think that if somebody does something and succeeds, that implies that he understands why he succeeded. Causality is the most hard things to prove in science. Behaving like Cesar, trying to emulate him, or believing in his theories about dominance is not more likely to get your dog behave nicely than being like Cesar in any other way, such as speaking spanish or being mexican or being an illegal immigrant, or wearing a shirt with "pack leader" written upon it. It just does not make sense. What makes Cesar skilled with dogs is that he is consistent, self-confident and really calm and cool (that’s, by the way, the same reason why people like him). Never let your dog walk in front of you if you like, but your dog will not understand it. That’s a fact. Cesar’s techniques, as I said, are old: this does not mean that they are not effective, or even that they were not the best available at some point. Steam machine were the best of technology at their time. This does not mean that we should still use them today, when modern and more efficient engines are available. The same apply to medicine (we don’t use the treatments or medications that were the best when they were invented, we use what is known to be most effective NOW). For example the alpha roll is a technique popularized by the Monks of New Skete in 1976. At that time alternatives where not well known, and research about the safety and effectiveness of the technique was insufficient. Today we know that it is dangerous and not very effective (compared to modern theories). In the second edition of their book (2002), the Monks themselves stated this, and warned people to not use this technique anymore. So what are these alternatives? It is actually very simple: dogs, as any other animal included people, mould their behavior through reinforcement or punishment. That is, said very simplicistically and shortly, if an action is rewarded it will became more likely, if it is punished it will became less likely to occur. That‘s really what Cesar techniques is about too (as a matter of fact, there are no other ways to train any animal, as far as we know). If you do to your dog something that he does not like, and if the unease of what you do overcome the pleasantness of doing it anyway, he will probably stop doing it. Also, if you reward your dog for doing something, and that is pleasant enough to overcome the pleasantness of doing instead whatever he was doing already without giving you attention, the dog will learn to do so. Some people have a sort of fear with rewarding, as they either think it is going to spoil their dog, having the dog to not respect them, or mainly, that if they train their dog with food rewards, they will not be able to get obedience if they happen to not have any food treats with them. Somebody who misunderstand this says that if you give reward for your dog it’s like giving a wage to a worker. If you stop paying the wage, he’ll stop working. Things are actually quite different. It is about conditioning, the dog learn a certain behavior at the point it becomes a natural reaction and does not really think about the treat, he just behave "naturally". (pavlov experiment) That’s by the way the same with people, since we mostly do not really know why we do something, even when we think we do. Therefore, you CAN both have your dog stop barking by teaching him to go instead on a certain place and be quiet, and rewarding him for it, OR by either yelling at him, hitting him, shocking him with electric collar or alpha rolling him. HOWEVER, you should also consider that your dog may be not able to understand WHY you are doing unpleasant things to him If you think that kicking him or hitting him (I know that Cesar calls it a "firm touch", but it is aimed at delicate parts: I practice martial arts and fighting sports, the idea is the same, you don’t need to charge a punch with all your might if you hit the neck or the liver, which is where he aims its "touches") will make him think that you are a pack leader is simply unrealistic. It will work simply because the dog will want to avoid the hit. OR it will make him angry and will make him fight back. Therefore you’ll have to punishing him in a still harder way to make him stop. You WILL succeeded at the end (assuming that the dog will not win the fight, which may not always be the case if you’re a 12y.o kid or a 50kg person, and you’re trying to "dominate" a rottweiler). However this will neither make him think that you are his pack leader (it is much more likely that he will loose his trust in you), neither will eliminate the reason why he behaved in the way you didn’t like. All these will increase his frustration and stress levels, and that’s definitely not a good thing. He maybe will listen to you, actually, but what makes you sure that he will not redirect his frustration and stress upon somebody who is physically unable to dominate him in the same way? As a matter of fact, there is a bad logical flaw in the alpha theory: IF dogs need a strong pack leader, because it is in their nature to always fight for a higher rank, forget to ever have a safe dog. According to the theory, indeed, every member of the family or generally every person NEEDS to put himself or herself clearly above the dog’s rank, otherwise the god will strive to achieve a higher rank to himself. I hope you definitely do not want to think that your 6 years old girl needs to be ready to alpha roll your pitbull if he growls at her (which is supposedly "normal" as it is natural for him to trying to achieve a higher rank). That’s the very basic reason - letting apart moral argumentation if these do not interest you - why you should never hit a dog, alpha roll him, jerk his collar or use the collar to strangle him, spike him (prong collars), shock him (electric collars). It is not only because it is supposedly immoral (decide that for yourself), but because it is not effective and dangerous. I’ve seen several times dogs learning amazingly quickly how to behave correctly as soon as the trainer showed them WHAT they did expect and rewarded the dog for doing it, sometimes even after years of "domination" training has resulted in nothing. The main difference between Victoria’s show and Cesar’s show is this: Cesar states "never try these techniques without consulting a professional", because they are dangerous. Such a statement is missing in Victoria’s show, because her techniques are dog friendly, based on science, safe and effective, so everybody can use them for their dogs (the other difference is that her shows receives awards from dog professionals, veterinaries, animal behavior experts, while "the dog whisperer" is very critized by field experts). If you want something more interesting, well done, easy to access and useful to train your dog, you can visit dogstardaily dot com. It’s been created and promoted by Ian Dunbar, perhaps the most respected authority on dog training and behavior, with a degree in animal behavior and in veterinary (by the way, he spent 10 years researching the development of social hierarchies in domestic dogs. Is it possible that he has some clue about the matter, even if he does not own a very popular reality tv show?) Other useful websites are "the real dog whisperer" (Paul Owens, who invented the name to underline that dog training doesn’t has to be based on dominating, but on whispering - that is, being gentle), or virtually anything about dog psicology or behavior that has its root in science, and therefore relies on facts, not myths. But, if you think all those people are not qualified enough or that they do not understand enough about dogs, the you SHOULD listen Cesar. But you should really DO listen. What actually happens is that most people watch Cesar’s show, then try to imitate, often with bad results. But Cesar explicitely asks you to not do so. He says that his show is not instructional. He made instructional dvd and books, which are full of alpha myths and very "mystical", but they are fine, and they are actually VERY close to modern positive training. There is actually not so much practical difference with other trainers and Millan, except from the theoretical point of view and some minor aspects. But you don’t get this from the show, and you’re actually very likely to get completely the wrong idea. So, if you really like Cesar, then do as he says: buy the books or the dvds, and follow them. DO NOT imitate what he does on the show, since he asks you to not do so. Remember that Cesar’s key is that he is really calm, he really knows to keeps himself cool. It’s not the technique, it’s what he calls his "energy". Emulating his "techniques" with the wrong energy is very common, but inefficient to the least, and dangerous at the worst case. I reply already to some common critics: Yes, positive training works with a cute puddle, but you’ll not be able to control your pitbull without being a strong leader! Wrong, since positive training is based on scientifically documented aspects of animal brain, it has been very effective even to train bears or whales. Oh, by the way, it works fine with wolfs too. Or did you think that people who need for some reason to safely live or anyway interacts with wild wolfs need really jerk their collars or alpha roll them? Try to alpha roll a wild wolf and you’d better be in very good physical and psychical shape to survive. Then, if you still feel lucky, try to alpha roll a 400kg bear… You can’t expect to correct a very aggressive dog behavior just but giving him some food treats or being kind! Well, this MAY be true. I say may because it is controversial, and many do not agree. For example you can read the article "does the carrot need the stick?" on Marine Animal Welfare: the article is mostly focused on marine animals, but it has good points about training of animal far stronger, bigger and more dangerous than aggressive dogs… However, whether this is true or not, it does not matter. If there is a very aggressive dog around, YOU should not do anything, leave the training to a professional. If YOUR dog is very aggressive to your family members, you should not try training techniques of ANY kind, but get immediately professional help. Dog training isn’t about rehabilitating a pitbull who is trying to rip your arm off and turn him into a nice pet. Most of us do not own Cujo! What WE should be concerned about is how to raise a happy, obedient and safe puppy through his life, or, if we get a dog from a shelter or anyway an adult dog, how to give him a happy and safe life in a way that satisfies us and the dog. How to deal a dangerous or aggressive dog is no more relevant to dog training than knowing how to handle an armed serial murdered is useful to educate kids. It’s just a very different thing. Training your dog is about preventing this kind of bad behavior in the first place. I know that it looks cool how Cesar is able to handle very scary or aggressive dogs. I think football is cool, but this does not mean that if I train to be a very successful player it will make my dog more reliable. The last, and most common answer of all, to anyone who criticize Cesar, is: "who are you to talk"? Cesar is skilled, he’s cool, he’s successful. Who are you? My answer to this kind of critics is always the same for every argument, since the same critic come for every argument. I am not anybody you should listen. I’m just somebody. You don’t know me, you don’t need to care about me, or about what I think, what I feel. You don’t have to like me, or what I say. What you should do, is to give an intellectual dignity to anybody, and a chance to talk to anybody, then judge the value of their ideas, not the person. I may be the most worthless person in this world, but the truth does not change. If what I say is correct, it is regardless of me being cool, smart, worthy, or stupid, unexperienced, naive. If you do not agree with me it is fine, tell my why. Give me arguments, give me some reasoning. Bring in some facts, some evidence.That’s how a reasonable conversation borns. |
Vastaukset
Vieras |
#638 Re: There is a matter.2012-05-04 01:04:05#637: Factsplease - There is a matter. Cesar's and Victoria's shows are two different things. We don't see really bad cases in Vic's show because we all know she can't handle them. If the dogs are not interested in treats, toys etc. she can't do a thing. Then it's "Bye bye doggy". |
Vieras |
#639 Re: There is a matter.2012-05-04 01:10:50#637: Factsplease - There is a matter. Tällainen holhoava propaganda ei ainakaan minuun uppoa. |
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